Final: Harvard-Westlake 15, San Marcos 9.
Oaks Christian12 - Foothill 6
Final: Newport Harbor 14, Buena 6.
Exactly! After the top 4 there is a significant drop off, every year
If CIF wants divisions for competition parity then they should base divisions on competition parity. They set open to be 8 to 12 teams and it is clear that 9-12 is no where near the level of 1-4 and they should have stayed at 8. I do not know a single person that would disagree about that.
They also stated that Massey Rankings would be used for seeding and then when Beuna was 6 that all changed. So them following their own published process is not even consistent. I donât disagree, but changing the ranking after publishing âfinalâ rankings is disingenious to the sport and their ranking models.
So yes, 9-12, should not be in Open. Now if you want the other direction, then no divisions and take the top 16-32(whatever the number) that get to go to playoffs and be done. Not in the top amount, your season is over.
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I know plenty of people who would disagree and plenty of people who would have preferred to be in open then D1 and D1 instead of D2. Iâm sure there are others who would prefer to be as low as possible to win. Itâs not a universal belief, either way.
I donât know all the details but I understand there was near universal outcry over relying on the Massey ratings, so maybe that was the reason for the change of course.
For better or worse, adding 4 more teams to the open division means itâs no longer one and done. To your point, your season doesnât end with a loss to a top team. Should more open teams advance to regionals? Maybe, but if they couldnât be top 4 at open given the chance, what argument is there that they could be at regionals? The winners of the lower divisions didnât have that chance, yet.
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I mean except for last year when the 5 seed upset the 4 seed on the road in the first round. Not much of a drop off there.
Maybe by adding more teams to the Open Division, CIF is taking the long view and trying to plant the seeds of more parity by encouraging more kids to stick with their home schools with the same shot at making the Open and getting exposure. If Buena and San Marcos can play at the highest level, then maybe those kids think twice about transferring to Oaks and forcing their parents to schlep down the 101. If San Clemente can play with the big boys, then why transfer to JSerra for more exposure. They may not win it this year, but maybe they will improve year over year because theyâve now gained experience. Just a thought from someone whoâs hoping that more teams rise up to challenge the current status quo.
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Well said Gibby.
But we shouldnât concede that the extra games are a credit to the expansion to 12.
Open division should be sought after by the top tier teams (16-20?) and then rewarded significantly to those who make it.
Two easy changes would offer a significant reward and incentive for Open division.
First, play out all the games to final places 3-8.
Second, have more teams from Open for regionals D1. If you donât make Open you donât get a D1 birth, best you get is D2 (or D3) regionals.
In basketball and volleyball CIF-SS has pool play with only 8 teams, guaranteeing 3 games and a 4th game in this new case since all teams would play the crossover game for final position.
Water polo is the easiest of sports to schedule multiple games at one site and would only require two refs and one pool for the extra 3 games.
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Were you eavesdropping on my convo with my wife driving to OC for a playoff game yesterday?!?!?!? LoL
I literally said a variation on this exact thing. Using your example, Buena and SM have the caliber of players (under and upper classman) and families with means that could have been peeled off by and Oaks or a HW or even evoked a relocation southâŚ
However they are dancing in the Open Division same as the big dogs and will have the luxury of building over years in HS and ClubâŚAND attracting other top level players who have public HS choice available in the areaâŚ
Its a W, even without a CIF championship to show for it.
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Pool Play resumes on Friday for the CIF-SS Open Division playoffs. Hereâs some historical fun facts on the four matchups (all references are to the top-level only, currently known as Open Division):
Corona del Mar vs. San Marcos. This one is the headliner from an historical standpoint. Corona del Mar will be trying to make it an even 100 wins all-time at the top level. Their very first win was in 1964. If CDM does beat San Marcos, they will be only the second team ever to reach 100 wins â Newport Harbor is the other. Corona del Mar and San Marcos have met once before â in 1979, San Marcos winning a âSweet 16â game.
Loyola vs. San Clemente. Loyola is also seeking a milestone win â number 25 all-time. That would make them only the 13th team to accumulate that many. San Clemente is actually 12th on the all-time list with 27 wins already. Neither has won a top-level game in a while â Loyola most recently in 2019, San Clemente in 2013. The teams have met only once before in the playoffs â San Clement won a âSweet 16â meeting in 2003.
Mater Dei vs. Foothill. This is the only one of the four Friday matches featuring two prior champions â and multiple titles for both (Mater Dei five, most recently in 2017; Foothill two, latest in 2008). The two teams have met once previously in the playoffs â Mater Dei won a quarter-final match in 2021.
Santa Margarita vs. Buena of Ventura. This is the first meeting of these two teams in the playoffs. Santa Margarita has played a somewhat unheralded role in the rise of private schools at the top level. In 1996, they participated in the first private vs. private game, losing to Loyola. In 1997, they became only the third private â and first based in Orange County â to win a game (Harvard and Loyola preceding them).
As we get into the second day of pool play, there is the possibility (remote) of teams in a pool being 1-1 and having a three-way tie. Lots of things would need to happen in the second and third day for that of course.
Has anyone seen the pool play tie-break rules for CIFSS published anywhere?
Very remote .00000001
Maybe in the HW CDM pool. CDM would want to beat SM by more points than HW did. Then all they have to do is beat HW by one.
They have it up now
- Goal Differential.
- Goals Allowed
- Goals Scored
Open Division, Round 2 predictions:
Santa Margarita 9 - Buena 8
Loyola 10 - San Clemente 8
Mater Dei 10 - Foothill 5
Corona Del Mar 9 - San Marcos 8
Good luck to all!
Optimism is always good
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Round 2 predictions Open Div:
Santa Margarita 12- Buena 9
Loyola 13-San Clemente 7
Mater Dei 10 - Foothill 9
Corona Del Mar 13-San Marcos 8
With the move of 4 more teams into the Open Div there is a ripple effect through all the divisions where the top 4 teams that would of been in Div 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6 are the last 4 teams in the next higher division now. That move of 4 teams, for no reason in my mind, has impacted all the divisions.
Any live streams of the Round 2 Open Division games? Thanks.
Final: Loyola 12, San Clemente 7