I agree JFran, quality of education is pretty much similar across universities. The distinction between these “top” schools seems to be the network of alumni that they have access too, but with that you also get what you put into it
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Dude, you are so out of control with the satire “mommy and daddy” talk. I went to LBSU and we got 3rd and 5th in NCAA and regularly beat SC, and UCLA. UCI was cream of the crop in that phase as was Cal. Programs and schools ebb and flow and now parity is excellent IMHO and recruiting talent from established programs is smart. LBSU took SC to OT early in the season and made NCAA’s. Great season. Kids go to college for more than playing time, it is a factor but stating its the problem is not accurate in my expereince. Get a grip
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I’ll agree with you that kids go to college for more than playing time. That shouldn’t be that big of a factor in choosing a college in my opinion. Maybe it could be the deciding factor in two colleges that are considered by the applicant to be otherwise even.
I disagree regarding parity. UOP, Fordham, LB, UCI, Davis, and more all doing quite well. But none of them are close to creating more parity. In fact, I’ll go out on a limb and say until a non big 4 team is the favorite going into the season and wins the championship, the parity talk can cease. Until then, we’ll just have potential darlings while the big fish look down from up top. LB may have taken SC to OT in September. That is so far off from winning a championship.
“Parity is excellent” huh? compared to what? Looking at the numbers, I would argue that we are the worst sport for parity.
Last 5 years - # of different NCAA Finalists
- M-WP - 3
- W-WP - 4
- M-Volleyball - 4
- Field Hockey - 5
- W-Hockey - 5
- W-LAX - 5
- M-LAX - 6
- W-Soccer - 7
- W-Volleyball - 7
- M-Hockey - 8
What is it about us that causes such concentration of talent at so few schools, why is our last “new” champion on the men’s side 26 years ago (USC 1998).
What is so unique about water polo that we can’t match:
- Men’s Volleyball (Hawaii and LBSU)
- Hockey (St. Cloud State, Quinnipiac, Denver, MN State, MN Duluth)
- Field Hockey (Liberty and St Joseph’s)
These are non-power-4 (FB) schools that made the NCAA finals in the past 5 years of their sport - why are we so far behind everyone else? The original post topic was “Are college coaches to blame” - I say no, but maybe I’m wrong and this is just the natural ebb-and-flow that is sports. On the Men’s side - UCLA, Cal, & Stanford are just on a 50+year crest, and Irvine and LBSU are just in a 30year trough.
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I agree college water polo has parity issues.
Do you think this has anything to do with the usa water polo push the last 7 years or so to exclusively develop 12 boys and no one else?
Especially added with a few club coaches making a real living off their clubs—they need to win. So these same kids have been given an overwhelming amount of top training.
There’s now less kids able to keep up with those 12 chosen ones since 12/14u. And the result is less developed kids for college coaches to select from.
I’m of the opinion no one cares if we win at youth levels. The majority would prefer usawp help develop a bigger amount of children so they’re more college ready.
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Trying to understand your point - Is this a dig at ODP Academy teams? Aren’t there like 20-30 kids per Academy team?
How do several weekends a year of development compare to the training players receive at their high schools and clubs, which is substantially greater in terms of time? I doubt that whatever USAWP invests in the Academy/National Team select group is what truly makes the difference.
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Which of those sports other than water polo has 90% of its national team athletes coming from a single state? I’m not sure there is another. Combine that with what appears to be a very strong desire for athletes from that state to stay in-state and play for the big 4 and a few other teams, and you get a very small number of teams in contention.
Edited to add: 15/16 USMSNT members from California. (The 16th is from Italy.) 15/17 USWSNT members from California. (The other 2 are from Serbia and Florida.) List the other state’s represented on either mens or womens teams in last 3 Olympic cycles. I can come up with Connecticut. Maybe Hawaii? (Has anyone from Hawaii since Chris Duplanty played on our national team?) We’ve got more players with hometowns in other countries than we do from states other than California. Until that changes, water polo at every level is going to remain a niche sport in the US.
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I don’t think anyone is arguing against the benefits of expanding the game outside of California. I think we all agree that expansion is better. Wolf and Brad long ago showed that east coast could bring it. Now, there are high schoolers moving to CA to play HS here. There has long been water polo in Michigan, Chicago and St. Louis. The midwest just isn’t turning out many top players. How to fix? Good question.
Is it a goal of USAWP expand the sport outside California? If so, what metrics are we using to track progress?
Membership numbers is one way. Session 3 JO participation is another.
In 2021, there were 3 non-California 10u teams. Last year there were 8 non-California 10u teams.
In 2021, there were 13 non-California 12u teams. Last year there were 20 non-California 12u teams.
The numbers aren’t huge, but for only three years it is a start.
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Did USA WP not have a goal to develop the sport outside California before 2021? I’d suspect the changes from 2021-2024 reflect recovery from declines during Covid as much as anything. What’s the total number of teams in those age classes from outside California?
Gonna take a wild guess and say pool time/space is one important factor in why the sport is California dominant. I know in Oregon the teams struggle to find pool time and space. Not sure about other states. I would think that Arizona, Oregon, and Nevada’s close proximity to California and warm weather would help boost their growth. Yet I hear as much about those states’ polo teams and players now as I did 15 years ago. Genuine question, do those states have the pools that are necessary for the sport to grow in those states?
We’ve had that discussion before, and pool time is definitely a limiting factor for development of any aquatic sport. I’ll just say that while California is especially rich in pools because outdoor pools are usable year round, lack of pools does not prevent geographic diversity in swimming and diving. We’ve had Olympic medalists and word record holders from Maine, and New Hampshire–not exactly rich in pools or known as aquatic hot beds. I had to look this up, but not in Artistic Swimming, either. 7 of 14 senior national team members are from California; other states include Florida (2), Arizona, New York, Puerto Rico–and a Canadian and a Mexican.
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I think pools are an easy thing to look at, but in the non California markets as an example you see the handful of successful clubs and some shrink or can’t grow/compete. I think it has a lot to do with leadership and time. The population base is very different than a Southern CA are so there is a numbers dynamic. Success breeds success as well. A small area with a large population, such as an Orange County Club, has as many kids to pull from as the PNW as a large spread out area. I do believe pool time matters, but I don’t believe that is the driving force or we would see swim struggle too. Some clubs outside of CA are thriving, especially at the mid age groups and have a strong pipeline of the younger age groups.
In my opinion, pool space is absolutely one of the biggest, if not the biggest, obstacles to growing the sport outside of CA. Pools outside of CA and FL are almost all indoor, which leads to exponentially higher costs to develop. The HVAC alone can nearly double to investment. Yes, swimming has managed to succeed in all areas of the country, but USAS clubs absolutely dominate the limited space that does exist. Very often, the pools are managed by county parks and recreation departments, and when they need to allocate space, the highest bidding swim clubs get the best slots available. It’s a zero sum game.
I grew up playing in CA and had no idea what an embarrassment of riches I had with the pool availability. I now have a kid on an east coast team and he doesn’t get home from practice until after 11pm. I often hear comments from parents that have dropped from the team that it’s simply too late for their kid.
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Pool space of course matter. There are several components, pool space being one of many.
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Don’t forget the other body of water SoCal has-ocean. Many/most OC, Santa Barbara, LA, San Diego kids don’t just live in chlorine. Big swell, rip current, learning not to panic in chaos helps the sport.
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How does that explain screaming parents? 
Spicoli was no screamer.
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It’s a way of looking at that wave and saying hey bud, let’s party.
I’m too old, I actually remember that line
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