In reference to a previously mentioned impact of international recruiting on US water polo, Dusty Litvak said this on the GOLS podcast:
17:20: I’d be lying to you if I said we weren’t thinking of … trying to figure out a way to incorporate the two and work with some leagues over there I think would be huge provide just a lot of opportunities for those athletes to come here and to get in front of college coaches as well…
So, he’s not shy about wanting to use USAWP to help recruit international players.
Also, UCLA is certainly not the only team with only a few international players
No they are not. College coaches have zero obligation to USA water polo. They are paid to win college games. Also foreigners make everyone better. There are only 13 spots on a national team and the cream will always rise to the top. Go watch some old college games. The players today are better and that’s because the pool of players is better. One of the reasons is foreigners increasing the quality of play.
Maybe they do make our kids better, but to a point. If all starting spots are taken up by foreigners and there are no American players in the water, the sport will die in this country. Very few young children will take up water polo if there is no possibility of playing in college.
The sport is dying in this country, that’s not news. USA Water Polo hasn’t helped the sport expand geographically. The women’s program has done well and that promoted the sport, but those days are over.
And the advertising campaign of “Water Polo Tough” seemed to turn people off. Who wants to play a sport that is compared to dismantling a bomb while treading water? Doesn’t look fun.
And with people running the numbers, chances of playing in college are very limited and only getting more limited. Not worth the effort, in most cases.
So you think that playing against better players in practices and games don’t make US players better? I’d love to hear your logic beyond they take spots from fringe US players.
I would say most schools that have an all foreign starting lineup, do so out of necessity. They don’t pull enough US kids to be able to compete. My guess is more schools would drop water polo without the benefit of bringing in foreigners to make their programs competitive.
I’m going to be brutally honest here. This is not about USA water polo or the national team. Most of the complaints are from parents who had hopes to get their kid into a school that they most likely would not get into without water polo. The anti-foreigner drum has been beating loudly since Stanford and Princeton have been recruiting foreigners lately. Now it will only get worse with roster limits (which people have been begging for by the way). Also, don’t praise UCLA. They would have many more foreigners if they could find a way to pay for them. Meanwhile, we just had the best NCAA year in the history of the sport.
What is your point? I can watch much better water polo in the Euro Cup. If teams start loading up on foreign players, we will all lose interest in watching NCAA water polo. Yes, players and parents want to continue enjoying the great game of water polo in college, but water polo often feels like a dead-end sport—it ends either in senior year of high school or in college. I would pay a lot to extend the bond that a shared passion for this sport has fostered in our family. Logically, if the chances of continuing to play at the collegiate level (low as they may be) decline, fewer kids will spend hours in the pool during their high school years, and this could ultimately kill the sport in the U.S.
Can you provide a counterargument on how foreign players might help grow the sport?
Evidence that “the sport is dying in this country”? Setting aside the drop in participation in EVERYTHING that came during Covid, are the number of USAWP clubs declining? High school teams? Number of players dropping? NCAA varsity teams dropping? Water polo has not had the growth I would like to break out of its status as a niche sport of mostly Californians, but I see no evidence we are losing ground.
For all but a handful of elite players, this is the case with virtually all sports. Why should water polo be different? I’d wager that the likelihood of a D1 college water polo player playing professionally is HIGHER than the chance of a D1 college basketball or football player doing so. Way fewer spots, but also way fewer kids in the pipeline. Last time I looked–and it was pre-covid–chances for a US HS water polo player to play at the NCAA varsity level was higher than most sports.
The growth of water polo in the US can only occur at the youth level by expanding to other states. The college game really has no impact, nor do foreigners, on the growth of the sport. There are around 30 D1 men’s teams and that number is not likely to ever grow. I haven’t checked the membership numbers for USAWP in some time, but the growth was pretty good a few years ago.
And yes you can watch higher level water polo online, but I’d much rather watch it in person and NCAA is the best quality polo we have in the US outside of a handful of national team exhibitions every year. College water polo fans consist of family (who likely move on when their kids are done), students (who just want to see their team win, and move on when they graduate), and former players who enjoy watching quality polo no matter who is playing
It would be interested to hear what Krikorian and Udovicic think about this issue. So far, I have not heard either of them complaining about influx of foreign talent in NCAA. I mostly agree with Rb. That said, it would be interesting to have some statistics on how many international players say from top ten schools (loosely speaking) stayed in the USA after graduation and helped USA water polo in any way - e.g. by coaching club polo.
One of the reasons why communities like Newport, Lamorinda, etc produce elite talent year after year is strong water polo culture - many parents understand water polo, are willing to help with coaching etc. We do not want to lose it.
The impact that international players have had on US water polo culture is something that should also be considered. The countries these players come from are historical powerhouses and bring new perspectives to coaches here. Many of the top coaches especially in the developmental stage are from European countries and were former players. You have Massimo Di Martire coaching at Newport, multiple Europeans on top 4 coaching staffs, and many of the teams that are producing the best age group talent such as Del Mar, Newport, Patriot, Vanguard, etc. all have foreign coaches who have played in the US. Idk how but if used in the right way these foreign players could be used in ways that help build the quality of the game. It’s up to the top organization to be the ones promoting the sport and expanding it, not the teams playing at the top of the sport in the country.
Universities in the US and around the world promote and welcome international students and athletes. Trying to force a “what’s best for US waterpolo” view on a global university system is niave.
It naive to think that not putting roster limits on foreign players is helping us water polo. Why do you think the euros put a roster limit. They learned a long time ago how it can degrade a system.
Water Polo is an expensive sport & for parents to commit their time, effort & kids to it - there has to be a goal. For most American parents one of the main goals is improving your kids ability to get into a better college. I’ve been fortunate enough to have two legitimate D1 players, but they are third generation water polo players. Most parents don’t have that kind of attachment to the game & giving away over half of the spots to foreign players is a nail in the coffin for USA water polo. Yes, today’s best players are better off competing against the worlds best 23 year old freshman in their preparation for the olympics but the best 10 year olds of today will have less quality players to compete as the parents are realizing that they are being sold a fantasy by USA Water Polo. As one of my kids coaches who I played against when I was in college told me: “there are 26k high schools in the country & each valedictorian there thinks her shxt dont stink - but I only have 4 chits a year & one of them is for your xxxx”. Those are tough numbers to begin with, which are only being exacerbated by foreign players.
Correct. Instead of top 16-20 kids in each graduating class going to big four it’s now top 10 maybe because of foreigners. My kid is grown but that seems to be numbers of new recruits going.
Europeans are being told to come here and play in college over professional because it is more money and you can get a degree and job.
Do not believe for a second that odp wants to develop all kids. They want to develop 12. Starting young, they compete together for years. They give them the very best training and competitions. Once you’re on the inside w Academy team, private scrimmages w colleges and NL teams, etc., you realize how fake the entire odp system is.
They always pick the kids from top HS because they train them correctly and together so USA water polo youth team can win.
Either put your kid at the top 2 local high schools and clubs, and donate some money for them to get a spot, or quit. iMO. Why be the loser that pays for Europeans to get college spots?