This is unbelievable. I thought we were supposed to support our Olympic athletes, see them as a source of both sports and nation pride. But apparently, she is considered too old now to receive an award she has likely earned, voted on by the COACHES.
I wonder what the Venn is of people who don’t think Ryann deserves the award and those who think it is totally acceptable for rising sophomores play in Junior Olympics.
You are mixing up grades with age. Playing as a rising sophomore at JO’s, means you are still within the age limit for JO’s. That same kid who was probably 17 or just 18 as a freshmen probably did not play much during their freshmen season due to 25 year old seniors getting all the minuets.
I don’t view this as an attack on a player but rather an examination of parity - How many schools are functionally able to take advantage of the rule that allows athletes to have 3 years of full-time National Team training in addition to their collegiate eligibility - that’s the issue. The playing field is already skewed for a number of reasons but this carve-out skews it beyond comprehension.
A kid having a late birthday (Aug-Dec) impacts 42% of the population. A kid that’s able to take 3 years off of school to train with the National team impacts 0.00001% of the population.
Oh sure. That kid who spent a year training at the collegiate level is on the same tier of the rising 16 year old senior with one season of varsity under her belt. I am not mixing up ages and grades. If a 25 year old Olympian is too much for collegiate athletes, how can you argue that an athlete with a year experience training at the collegiate level is no better than then her “age” peers. Give me a break.
Well, then one should consider the national team pipeline vs collegiate athletes who want to go for the Olympics, and how that is more of a reflection on our pipeline–which should be pretty clear after last summer.
I’ve never thought college kids should play in JO’s. It should be beneath them. But I also think you should only get one redshirt year for the Olympics.
reduxpolo: Not to get more off topic, but do the coaches vote for the Cutino Award?
Which I totally can understand, but again the pull from college teams says more about our pipeline than not right now. And I don’t think Covid helped with this age issue. I do not recall any issues with Annika Dries or Kami Craig or Maggie taking the time off to play for the National Team and play in the Olympics amongst those us watching at the time.
Yes.
"Established in 1999 by The Olympic Club, the Cutino Award is given annually to the top men’s and women’s NCAA Division I water polo players as voted on by coaches from across the country. "
Rbpolo: I agree with you. Kids with a year of NCAAs under their belts should not be playing in JOs and 24 and 25 year-olds with multiple Olympic cycles should not still be playing in the NCAAs.
reduxpolo: Thanks for the link. I did not realize it was only coaches. It would be nice to know exactly which coaches. I assume that every NCAA Division 1 coach gets a vote? The Olympic Club should also make their votes public.
I cannot answer that for certain, but I do know it is a range of coaches from across the country and conferences, to be sure that there is parity in the vote and not a vote centrally focused on the “Big 4.”
What about high school kids who trained and competed internationally with the SNT (better yet, played in the Olympics)? Should they be allowed to play in JOs? Where do you draw the line?
Ryann’s case with two redshirt years is rare because of COVID. Hopefully, it won’t happen again.
GirlDad: I am not sure where it makes sense to draw the line. At least the Junior Olympics has an age limit. I understand that allows some young college kids to continue to play, but at least there is a hard cut off line.
I believe that Neushul had three redshirt years, not two.
What is an anomaly in NCAA Water Polo is common practice in NCAA Hockey. The amount of players who have played in USHL, or entry level NAHL will make Polo look young. Once barred, CHL (Canadian) are now eligible despite have minimal dollar contracts. These are not Olympians. How does NCAA say to the Olympians due to your age, you no longer qualify but to the Hockey player with 2 years Semi-Pro experience, you’re OK?
Edit: Case in point - Owen Michaels of Western Michigan was the leading scorer in their recent NCAA Championship victory as a 23 year old Sophomore and chosen Frozen Four Most Outstanding Player.
a 16 year old rising senior is very young and she would be playing 16U…
In hockey, are the 23yr old sophomores with pro/Nat’l team experience limited to 3-4 schools? Are those 3-4 same schools all in a Power-4 conference?
or does NCAA hockey already have parity? In Men’s Hockey, we see the equivalent of UOP and Brown making the NCAA title game.
| Season | Champion | Runner-Up |
|---|---|---|
| 2014 | Union (N.Y.) | Minnesota |
| 2015 | Providence | Boston University |
| 2016 | North Dakota | Quinnipiac |
| 2017 | Denver | Minnesota Duluth |
| 2018 | Minnesota Duluth | Notre Dame |
| 2019 | Minnesota Duluth | Massachusetts |
| 2020 | ||
| 2021 | Massachusetts | St. Cloud State |
| 2022 | Denver | Minnesota State |
| 2023 | Quinnipiac | Minnesota |
| 2024 | Denver | Boston College |
Swimcoach: I think we are in agreement. The point I am making is JO’s does have an age limit and when folks start arguing that an 18 yr old college player shouldn’t be allowed to play in JOs, it opens up the debate of whether a high schooler on the SNT should also be allowed to play. One could argue that the high schooler on the SNT has an advantage over the college 18 year old who might be on the practice squad and could use the extra summer of development.
You are correct about Neushul having three redshirt years. I was mostly referring to the fact that she trained for two olympics within a college career. The unusual circumstances of Tokyo getting pushed out to 2021 extended her college career and gave her the extra two redshirt years. I don’t see that happening again and she shouldn’t be deprived of having the full college experience.
If you are on the national team and in high school, there is no reason why you wouldn’t play JO’s. I’m not saying a freshmen should be banned from JO’s if they meet the requirements, but why would they play?
They could be playing club college water polo and an opportunity to play over the summer to keep skills sharp and able to hang with their crew. If someone is within the age limit for JO I am not sure why someone gets concerned about that 18 year olds decision to play. Not everyone is playing JO for a stepping stone to get signed, etc. Several different reasons they may want to play.