That’s a different story. Big difference between club and varsity
So where is the line? D1, D2, D3? If club doesn’t matter it’s a bit to try and pick a certain level. And, not all D1 are equal as we know. Too grey to worry about an 18 year old deciding to play JO when water polo and USAWP has so many bigger issues right now.
Some D1 programs do not practice during summer. Sometimes, kids might want to play with their siblings or close friends. Whatever, the reason, I have no problem with any 18 y.o. kid playing at JOs. Looks much more natural than 19 years old high school players, imho.
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I do not claim to know every athlete who has ever played in JOs, but the only example I can think of recently of a SNT athlete playing in JOs was when Aria Fischer was training and going to play in Rio but then played for SET at JOs in 2015. And I really cannot think of any SNT training team athletes besides the recent Ausmus who could be considered here, but I do not know if she played at JOs in 2023.
I do recall at the time of Aria, people were perplexed why she would “play down” but..well, I will just leave it at that.
Not really? An October birthday? And completely club dependent.
Ausmus?? Seriously??
Surprised they didn’t give the nod to MPSF tournament MVP and NCAA tournament MVP Christine Carpenter! Was a big reason Stanford was able to claim the title
Not sure why Ausmus is a big surprise. She led the MPSF in almost all stats across the board (#1 in goals, #2 in steals, #2 in assists. MPSF newcomer of the year and multiple back to back newcomer of the week awards.
No doubt that Carpenter was a force in both the MPSF and NCAA tournament, thus earning MVP titles in each. But I think Cutino looks at the entire body of work throughout the season, not just the tournaments.
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The college 18 year olds in JOs we knew of were kids that were on the development/practice squads of their college teams and greatly benefitted from the extra development they got from playing a second season of club JOs. In many cases, it was the college coach that asked them to play club over the summer. Some kids (who are younger graduating seniors) don’t get the same opportunity playing as a first year in 18U, so that second year of growth in 18U can be transformative.
The kid that is starting every year in club and get decent playing time as a 17-18 year old freshman in college is likely not coming back to play in JOs. There are two from this year’s College freshmen class that fall into this category and have chosen not to return to JOs.
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Ausmus has the best overall season stats in several categories. If you go by the stats, she should be in consideration.
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Neushul and Kearns were guaranteed finalists. The last spot could have gone to a number of outstanding players such as Ausmus, Carpenter, Flynn, etc.
Ausmus had the best stats, but those only tell part of the story IMHO. USC played 34 games, 8 more than Stanford, and many of their starters racked up some big numbers against Biola x3, CBU, Claremont, Pomona, Marist, Bucknell, etc.
As I have said before, I think that Neushul will with the Cutino Award this year. IMHO, she was the best all-around player in college this year and her team won the NCAAs. That being said, her stats are not overwhelming. She was second on her team in goals with 55 and third in assists with 37. Those pale in comparison to Ausmus’ 114 goals and 55 goals, but to me, stats do not tell the whole story.
It will be interesting to see how the voters view it. To me, Neushul is the most worthy choice, but I was wrong last year when I picked Steele, so who knows?
Not to take anything away from Ausmus (I think she should be in “consideration”) but USC tends to pad their best players stats every year. They played 34 games this year (versus 26 for Stanford and UCLA and 25 for CAL). That’s 8 additional games against teams like Biola (USC played them 3 times - Ausmus had 6 goals in each game), Bucknell, Pomona Pitzer, Claremont Mudd Scripps, CBU, Marist etc. Also, in the NCAA championships when it counted, she was 1 for 4 against UCLA and 1 for 5 against Stanford. I hope the voters aren’t looking at just stats but I’m afraid that’s what it has come down to.
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Rational - Owen Michaels bio prior to college:
Played last season for the Dubuque Fighting Saints of the USHL … had 26 points on 15 goals and 11 assists … had eight points in five playoff games … spent two seasons with the Bismark Bobcats of the NAHL from 2020-22 … collected 53 points on 14 goals and 39 assist … was a +8 over two seasons … had five points in 11 playoff games.
NCAA obviously won’t have 2 different set of rules on age.
Do you think that’s what baseball said when they imposed minimum scholarship limits (25%)?
Or when baseball imposed a 3-year minimum collegiate committment (from HS)?
Or Tennis when they imposed additional rules on enrollment after age 20?
- well nobody else does this - so we can’t?
I’d argue these sports realized there were problems and took bold, tailored action in the best interest of their sports.
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I tend to think Ryann wins it. Its a tall hill to climb to win as a freshmen if its close (See last year). Also a slight benefit to winning the title. Stranger things have happened though, as evidenced by Maggie Steffens never winning it, and she’s probably the greatest player of all time
I agree that it shouldn’t come down to just stats. But since the stats are being called out, it’s worth noting that Ausmus would have 80 goals on the year if you removed the 8 layup games (putting her second overall behind Millie Quin at ASU). That’s coming from a true freshman who is the best attacker on the team with a target on her back.
Ausmus’ stats are also slightly better than Neushul’s in the NCAA Championship. Both ended up with 5 goals and 4 assists, but Ausmus had 4 steals and 3 earned exc to Neushal’s 2 steals and 1 earned exc.
I’m not trying to take anything away from Neushul, because I do think she deserves to win based on her impact on the team and the fact that they won the natty. The chance for her to win the Cutino is another reason why she should be allowed to play out all four of her college years, regardless of age and circumstance.
I personally think all three finalists are deserving and don’t think the choice is obvious.
Great point. NCAA has enough problems so probably won’t get much attention and how endemic is the problem to them. I thought the 3 year Baseball rule was for JC players or Draft? As things are unfolding, NCAA has less and less power as the Athletes are taking them to task on anything that does not benefit them.
GirlDad: I do not disagree with your opinion of Ausmus as being a deserving finalist, but your example of the NCAAs is exactly why I hesitate to put too much emphasis on stats. You state that Ausmus’ stats are slightly better than Neushul’s, but from the games that I watched, Neushul had a much better NCAA Championships. She played absolutely great defense and did so many small things that will never show up in a scorebook. I thought that the Most Outstanding Player would be a flip of the coin between Neushul and Carpenter. While Neushul did not get the top award, she was named First Team along with teammates Carpenter and Flynn. USC’s Kearns and Gazzaniga also earned First Team designation while Ava Stryker earned Second Team. Ausmus was not selected to either team.
This is not to take anything away from Ausmus. I am amazed at how good she is, especially at only being 19 years old, and will probably be the pre-season favorite to win the next three Cutino Awards.
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Swimcoach: once again, you and I are in general agreement. Perhaps I need to do a better job clarifying my posts.
My last post was in response to LeoWP’s comments about Ausmus’ statistical performance at the NCAA championship and the asterisk placed on her overall performance on the season.
If the Cutino was based on performance alone at the NCAA Championships, they would just call it the NCAA Championship MVP.
GirlDad: Yes, it seems like we are on the same page with most of this. I enjoy seeing others’ points of view.
I have just been a little disillusioned with the voting results in the past, especially last year when overall and/or lifetime stats seemed to have been given the nod over who was actually the most outstanding player.
Also, as Rbpolo mentioned, how did Maggie Steffens never win a Cutino Award?
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Ryan’s circumstances present a significantly more challenging situation than Maude’s. Ryan’s predicament stemmed from the COVID-19 pandemic and was unintentional.