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These young kids coming to the USA from other countries were staples on their NTs at u20 worlds, Euros or with their senior NT such as Krstic, Naipoglu, Toth, Salipante, Tresa, Georgaras, Keightley, Ahklevediani and Perrone, to name a few but not all. Thats far more advanced than what we have here in USA with the exception of one current HS player who is still in HS.
Statistically, while Ryan Ohl was sensational for team USA at both the U20 and Sr level, Botond was better while playing 21 fewer minutes and 1 fewer game than Ryan did but finished with 6 more goals despite a more limited opportunity set.
More stats for you: Will Schneider was more impactful than Castillo was at U20 scoring 83% of his shots for 10 goals on 12 attempts in 90 minutes including 6/7 shooting on natural goals out of center while Castillo was 7/19 for 37% including 1/2 shooting on natural goals out of center in 103 minutes of play.
We agree, Liechty is OUTSTANDING, hard to argue with that but we give the edge to Ponferrada who is a senior with 2 national titles.
If youâll notice, we arent alone in these opinions. A sample of foreigner to domestic ratio by school for this yearâs class:
UOP - 6 foreigners, 4 domestic
Cal - 5 foreigners, 3 domestic
Fordham - 5 foreigners, 2 domestic
USC - 2 foreigners, 5 domestic (mind you USC has 4 foreigners who start for them currently)
We should watch and see who plays meaningful minutes this year amongst this class. That said, the US 2026 class is LOADED with talent, which should flip this year on its head and be close to the opposite.
Im sorry you dont see Chase Dodd in the same light we do, however!
Keep it coming! Stats from U20 can be found here
I donât know. If Wes and Clay speak from their hearts, as I suspect is the case, I have no problem listening to their âbiasedâ opinions. I mean, we are all biased by our experiences.
The main problem is that water polo is a niche sport so there are not that many podcasts, web forums, etc devoted to the sport. As a result, private and very unofficial rankings ( thanks for doing it Jeff) or WPW podcast might be considered by some as a gospel of sorts. Guess what, it is not
Wes and Clay obviously know the sport very well, are passionate about it, and it is absolutely fantastic that they are devoting their time to WPW. Do I agree almost all the time with their opinions? Definitely not. And it is OK.
Ohl vs. Botond is a toss-up, but in my opinion, Ohl is the superior defender whose impact does not always show on the stat sheet. Key word: stat sheet. I will get into that below.
Secondly, I was not comparing Schneider with Castillo. I was comparing Castillo with Marcell Scezi. By your own standard of production, Scezi had 13 goals in 27 games last year. The issue is not Schneider, who is excellent and absolutely deserving. The issue is Scezi, whose defending against movement is poor and who often loses his assignment. That selection undercuts the credibility of the list.
You also did not address Tico Carsalade. Please explain the case for him as one of the best returners when he is not even a top-four option on his own team and does not always close games.
While we are at it, give me your reasoning for Gray Carson. What specific criteria put him over other returners across the country?
And the LAAC problem remains. According to Pacific Blue, twelve of fourteen returners with recent LAAC ties are not Best of the Best; it reads like Best of LAAC.
Enthusiasm is great until it starts looking like propaganda. At some point, âhealthy hyperboleâ just becomes unhealthy bias dressed up as excitement.
I respect the passion and the time Wes and Clay put into WPW, and I agree that more coverage for water polo is always a good thing. But passion and bias are not mutually exclusive. In a sport with so few regular voices, the responsibility to present a balanced view becomes even greater.
That is why the LAAC heavy returners list raises eyebrows. It is not about shutting down their enthusiasm, it is about holding the coverage to the same standard of fairness we would expect from any sportâs top commentators.
Fair enough:
I would argue despite you saying that Tico is ânot a top 4 on his own teamâ he would be the best on just about every other team in the country with the exception of MAYBE USC and Fordham. Ryder himself credited his success last year to Tico being the reason for so many opportunities. Like you said, not always a stat sheet thing.
Szecsi being the last cut from the Hungarian Sr team and watching him play vs the Croatia NT prior to u20 worlds showed me enough. Will Pete be a better collegiate player than Marcell? MAYBE SO! I dont see Pete having the same career internationally that Marcell does. And, if we are being candid, I hope Im dead wrong because we would LOVE to see Pete Castillo crush it on the worldâs stage.
Gray Carson, I suggest you watch him absolutely smash at both ends this season. Its a prediction, not a fact, at this point. Tho its a darn well educated prediction.
Are we bias towards LAAC? Yes, of course.
Is it possible the best players in college also play for LAAC? Of course its possible! Two things can be true.
We continue to do our best to do our research and bring an unbiased opinion. We appreciate everyone engaging and yes, lets get the views above 100
I love having WPW available and itâs great for the sport. Are the rankings biased, sure. Will 2026 ranking be better, likely not even if more domestic players. It is not possible for them to have seen most of the 2026 class, except the ODP pipeline kids that may go to U20 or somewhere they happen to be. Thatâs ok really. It wonât be perfect. There was a lot of time spent watching internationals all over the place, and the U20 NT for the US. 2026 is loaded, but if they only really know a handful of them thatâs ok.
I hope you are joking about Tico Carsalade, because saying âMAYBEâ in regards to Fordham and USC is crazy, and not mentioning other players at other programs is even more absurd. I am glad that Ryder credited Tico. Kobe Bryant credited Pau Gasol, but Pau Gasol would not have been the best player on just about any other team in the NBA. Tico Carsalade could have been at Harvard last year, and he still would have been the second option behind James Rozolis-Hill. Tico is a fantastic player in Adamâs system, but I donât think he can be a No. 1 option on a team that can contend for a national championship. Calling him the best player on just about every other team in the country is a stretch. Maybe if you narrow it to only 1/2 and 4/5 side players, there is an argument, but that is about it.
On Scezi, it is great that he was the last cut from the Hungarian senior team, but this list is about college returners. College output also has to matter. As for Gray Carson, a âpredictionâ without clear criteria is exactly why lists like this get called biased. I think being unbiased is only gonna help your page grow, not the opposite.
There are two things that bother me sometimes when I listen to water polo discussions: a) people who have no clue about the sport yet feel entitled to criticize refs/ coaches/ players so the whole pool could hear them, b) people who do know the sport but spread falsehoods because it suites them.
WPW is clearly neither of these two cases. In my humble opinion, we are very lucky that they are doing the podcasts. To state that you will never listen to their podcasts because of the difference of opinions strikes me as a very immature or rush decision. But hey, it is your right!
This back and forth is amazing for the sport. I love WPW and the cause for debate and discussion. I think LAAC has done a great job of recruiting, so they have a lot of the best players in the country, so in a sense⌠that checks out for me. Wes tends to be very strongly opinionated one way or another, not often in the middle, but thats what makes him so fun. You love him or hate him several time in a single episode, just like when I watch ESPN and am listening to some of my favorite shows or commentators. Clay seems more of the middle ground guy, which is important to have next to personality like Wes. Keep it up on WPW! And keep debating them! Would be fun to have some guests come on debate some of their thoughts on teams and players like we see on sports podcasts or on ESPN. @NorCalDad donât boycott them. Keep watching and debate them here. It is all great fro the sport!
My biggest gripe is Ponferrada. His numbers dropped considerably without Papa sucking away his defender. Schneider does not belong on there either. You shouldnt base everything on a recent tournament. Castillo was better last year and Jack Martin is better than all of them anyways.
Having differences in opinions and having open discussions/disagreements about our sport is a great thing in my opinion . Do I agree with everything Skip Bayless or Steven A. Smith say? Definitely not - but getting more people to have opinions on players/teams is whatâs going to grow our sport
I understand what people are saying about bias, but I think that the fact that WPW is the only game in town makes them seem more biased than they are. The fact of the matter is no one else is doing this and if WPW werenât we wouldnât be getting anything to debate about.
Not that I ever had a platform as large as WPW, but the little public writing I have done regarding water polo has made me realize that a major issue in this sport is that people arenât willing to put their opinions in public with their names attached because of the backlash they may face. I commend Wes and Clay for not just expressing the opinion but not doing so anonymously. I also appreciate that they are more than willing to hear feedback and criticisms.
Instead of complaining because they have a LAAC bias, or an international bias or didnât rank players the way you personally would, I would suggest putting your own list together and putting your real name on it. The more, the better.
I love using ânot always a stat sheet thingâ when it helps your argument and then turning around in another instance and cherry picking certain stats from a single (non college) tournament when âthe stat sheet thingâ does help make your case.
Or saying that someone potentially having a bigger international career is the measuring stick in one instance - when Iâm pretty sure this episode was about âcollege water poloâ - and then turning around and saying that in another case the measuring stick is being a senior with 2 National Championships (and letâs be honest, we all know who the unstoppable force behind those championships was) compared to a junior with 1 National Championship.
Shifting the criteria to prove your desired outcome is the definition of confirmation bias. But hey, keep hyping LAAC and talking about what âsensational humansâ they are, while insisting you are unbiased.
On a brighter note - the episode now has 180 views, with surely more on the way. The plan is working!
While opinion based lists will always be imperfect as they are, by definition, qualitative, I canât help but thank you guys for the time and effort and content you provide.
Moreover, the âbest of the bestâ list was not limited to the top 14 players. So many additional players received recognition as the list was being unveiled. Castillo, Sherlock, the Leichtys, among plenty of others, all got deserving shout outs.
Even though we seem to be living in an entertainment era of content overload, our beloved sport seems to be in short supply of coverage and content so every little bit helps and is appreciated.
Well, some numbers from the 2024 U18 Worldâs may tell some story about the 2025 grads a year ago but maybe not much as they are the younger group. As a side, I didnât realize how old Gavin C is. He was easily one of the oldest kids in the pool at JOs. Connor will be next year and he will be unstoppable.
I def. dont agree with a lof of the content but⌠Another version is that if you dont like WPW start âWater Polo Thursdaysâ and voice your opinion, grow the sport, announce games, do predictions.
And good news we all get to look back and poke holes in this all at seasons end, like I hope WPW does.
This may be a hard left and at the risk of being on the nose wrt my handle here, I found the brief comments in this episode about the new rules and centers/center-play accurate and interesting.
I think the new rules have definitely put a premium on center play (and refereeing, but weâll leave that for now). Particularly more dynamic players - not just holding the side or getting exclusions (although certainly those things)! But as we saw at world championships, you also need to have those center-specific skills; not just a UTL driving in and posting up. I think thats also why youâre seeing different kinds of players at the position recently. Including: faster players; somewhat smaller players; and lefties. Think Jack Martin at USC as a for instance thatâs at least two of those three.
Finally, in a collegiate world of smaller rosters, it means getting players that are both ready to contribute right away and but also, in multiple ways.
. Do I agree with everything Skip Bayless or Steven A. Smith say? Definitely not - but getting more people to have opinions on players/teams is whatâs going to grow our sport